I want to bounce some ideas off people here and get some feedback on ways to solve a problem. First let me describe the problem:



The primary risk for me releasing the game version of ShowSim is for professionals to start using it for real shows. There are two primary features that pros use ShowSim for: #1 is creating a presentation video of the show that is used to sell the show to clients and #2 is converting the show data to a format that can be used to actually fire the show. Disabling feature #2 is very easy, but #1 presents a challenge. If real display companies start using the game to produce video bids, then not only do I risk losing sales of the pro version, but my customers who dropped $5K on the pro version will then have competition from tight-wads who used a $40 game when bidding on the same show. Full time display companies that invest thousands into their operations should not have to worry about getting under-bid by Billy Bob who does low-margin displays for the fun of it with a crew of volunteers. I already know of a few companies that even use RCT to produce presentations for bids, which means some companies are willing to spend a lot of time doing things the hard way in order to keep from spending money on software.



One thing I currently use on demo releases to prevent videos from being used for commercial purposes is through the use of a watermark. Specifically, a watermark that lets the viewer know that the video is illegal if it is being used to try and sell him a show. Obviously watermarks are undesirable to look at for the game user wishing to put a show up on vpyro. I could put the watermark along the bottom of the screen, which would be more easy to eliminate with editing tools but the average show designer probably isn’t going to know how to do that. So there’s one idea.



I believe that most users of this game would also be vpyro members, since the whole point of creating shows in the first place is to share them with the vpyro community. I don’t think many people would want to go through all the work of creating a show just to watch it themselves. Without an audience and feedback, there is no motivation. So in a way, vpyro would almost be a component of the game itself. So another idea would be require that game users have a vpyro account, and then have a feature in the software that enables a watermark-free video output that is turned on remotely upon request through the vpyro forum. For example, you just finished a show and now you want to render a watermark free version to put up on vpyro. You put in a request on vpyro, either through a forum section dedicated to this or by sending me a message, then I remotely enable the software to produce the watermark free video. The video would then need to be posted on vpyro as one of the requirements for removing the watermark. I can generally tell by looking at a show if it was designed to actually be fired or not. Granted this method adds an extra layer of hassle for the game user, but it is more effective at solving the problem of illegitimate commercial usage.



Does anyone have any other ideas or opinions of the ideas presented here?



-Kyle

Is a little tricky situation but I think the watermark should work fine...

I think doing the water mark would detract from people who are using it as a game, and people trying to use the game for profesional purposes wouldnt have that hard of a time removing the water mark if its low on the screen. I think your best option is that you include in your EULA that videos created with the game version are not for profit or cant be used to solicit work for actual pyro events etc. This makes users legally liable and you can sue them for the full price of the product if they use it in that way and you find out. Id bet your paying companies would be more than happy to rat out someone using the game to compete with them.

I just know if I paid for a product and i was stuck with a watermark I would be pretty upset/annoyed and the idea of having to get permission to render out a show without a watermark seems like just as bad a solution to me.

I cant think of any sure fire way to prevent this from happening to be totally honest.

Have a watermark maybe for a game version, but you would be able to request a "key" to disable the water mark feature. And too get this "key" you would have to be a Vpyro member and send a request to a Admin/Mod and the Admin/Mod would decide if they would or would not be allowed the disable key. This would prevent people from signing up for vPyro getting the key and leaving.

That was my original plan actually. The only problem with that is would be difficult to enforce the EULA outside of the U.S., and most of my sales occur in foreign countries. People outside the U.S. would just call my bluff and use it anyway despite the EULA, just as they do with pirating software on a mass scale, knowing that companies can't afford to go through the trouble of taking them to court in their own country.

Its a tough conundrum really. I think you should do the EULA anyways doesnt hurt you and gives you the legal options. Its to bad there is not something as blatant as a watermark that can be used to inform the person watching the show that it was made with the consumer version and is not intended for profesional use.

At the same time, anyone who is determined enough not to pay for the full version of the software and use things like RCT3 to do demos or proposals will go the extra mile to get around anything you implement. I can't speak for how tight the pro-pryo community is but I would hope there would be some form of self moderation going on when people see stuff like this and could report it to you.

This post has been edited by Mongo: May 9 2008, 09:53 PM

It is a tough problem, and I've even seen people use the current 2D demo to present shows to clients, complete with the big nasty watermark right in the middle that even blocks out some of the viewing area! Although in those cases the operators actually bought the software later on after securing the contract, so at least they had the intention of buying the software.

It would be nice to be able to gauge how many games would sell, but I have no idea. If enough of them sold then it would cover any potential losses on the pro side and I could just not worry about the whole issue. I think normal computer games typically move large numbers of units, and popular ones like Halo sell outrageous numbers. ShowSim technically isn't even a game though. It's more like Photoshop for fireworks shows.

I would not be surprised to see large numbers sold, everyone loves fireworks, just gotta market it well.

I think you would sell a lot, everyone has a little pyromaniac in them and love to show it in a creative (sometimes destructive) way. But a lot of times legal problems prevent some (including me) too legally purchase fireworks. Pennsylvania Bans all arial consumer fireworks... It only takes a few idiots to ruin it for all of us, Let natural selection take care of them... So that's why I enjoy RCT3 I can have all the fun (most of the fun) of real fireworks in a legal way. Depending on how you advertise I think you could get a lot of buyers.

Why not just take the demo down from your site? And for people to buy the Game version they should be a member of vPyro. They would obtain the code via PM.

The demo that is on my site now is for the pro version, which is necessary for selling it. The game will actually not be advertised on www.showsim.com, rather I'll have a seperate site for that. I want to keep the two seperate. Ideally I don't even want the pros to know that the game even exists. I might even have to rename the game to something else so that people searching on "showsim" don't find the game version.



Yeah, a few idiot politicians who think it is their job to save everyone from themselves. Pretty soon there will be nothing left but video games because our nanny-state government officials will ban everything in the name of "safety." You will notice that the older a person is that you talk to, the more freedom they had in their youth. The main reasons for this are 1) lawyers that sue everyone whenever some dolt gets hurt, 2) media that sensationalize and exaggerate the hazards whenever some dolt gets hurt and 3) politicians trying to make themselves feel important by keeping dolts from getting hurt. The unintended consequence is that everyone turns into a dolt because they aren't allowed to take chances and learn from experience!

I couldn't buy fireworks either when I was growing up. That's when I learned how to make them myself

I think that's probably your best bet Kyle. We'll have to think of a catchy name

i dont have extneded knowledge of programming but you do realise that image minipulation is a hard thing to do especially with images that have a watermark through the centre as i know in the past i have tried to to test out security of images u cant even slice them off without ruining a photo if your going to do a water mark put it on the bottom of the video but then make it appear again after a delay time...but if all else fails just get the thing paitoned and copyrighted so no one can nab the ideas of the game but also make sure that thwy have to buy a license to use the software for other purposes, but i was thinking about more money coming in, but then it brought me on to if they use it for money making purposes make sure they give u money for using the software seems a reasonable plan then if not i wud say do what the americans do (no offence to no one by that) i wud say just go legal with it and thats all the americans do

This post has been edited by myers247: May 26 2008, 11:54 PM

You really should start paying attention to the way you write, that was painful to read.
Please, use punctuation marks accordingly.

I know it may be a little early to ask, but do you have a release date in mind for the professional and the game version, I mean, I`m so exicited about this game that I can`t wait for it to be released! Thanks for spending your time makling something fabulous as this! I can`t wait to make a show with it...

I thought I would add an additional post of an idea I had concerning the marketing of this product in this thread just in case you miss the other one.

Concerning the marketing, advertising, and selling of such a product:

In the past few months there has been a new Fireworks publication that has developed. It is called 76' Pyro. It is adverstised as a "Magazine for people who love fireworks" It is all about the art, industry, safe use, production techniques, information, and love of all things pyro. As of right now they produce four magazines a year. The circulation base has already exceeded thousands of subscribers soley through internet sales. They have just made the jump from mailbox delivery only to mailbox and newstand sales...this will only widen their circulation base.

Anyway, my idea was pursing some for of contact with this publication. As you continue to develop your product, you could get in touch with the '76 Pyro team and possibly line up an interview, product evaluation, etc... I think this is a product that they would easily highlight and provide a lot of adversitement for. I am personally a apart of an online community dedicated fireworks. I know that a lot of those guys are subscribers to this publication and would be more than willing to pay a few bucks to have a product they could design their own shows on (for personal enjoyment that is).

If you're interested, check them out at www.76pyro.com They're all great guys and would give you great coverage if that was something you were interested in.